Posted: 10:35 am Monday, August 18th, 2014

3 improved players from Tech camp 

By Ken Sugiura

Georgia Tech defensive back Domonique Noble made good use of the Yellow Jackets’ 2 ½ weeks of camp. Safety Isaiah Johnson singled him out for having made significant improvement as he challenges for playing time in the secondary.

“He’s really impressed everyone on defense, everyone on the team,” Johnson said following the team’s scrimmage Saturday. “He’s coming up and making plays. He’s still got some work to do, but he’s really impressed everyone.”

Noble, a junior, can give defensive coordinator Ted Roof some versatility with the ability to play safety and nickel back and cornerback. With Johnson and Jamal Golden out last season, Noble made four starts as a sophomore at safety. He was listed behind Demond Smith at the fifth defensive back spot going into camp. He actually was not listed at any spot on the two deep chart released last week.

“Much more sudden (in his tackling), much more physical,” Roof said. “I think he’s committed. Part of it’s just growing up as a player. It happens at different times for different people, but I’ve been real proud of him and the way that he’s worked, the way that he’s gotten better and the way he approaches practice.”

Wide receiver Qua Searcy and linebacker Beau Hankins caught the attention of B-back Zach Laskey. Searcy, a true freshman, has “gone out and made a lot of big plays this camp,” Laskey said. Searcy is in the mix for playing time behind likely starters DeAndre Smelter and Micheal Summers. A spot on special teams seems likely.

Hankins, Laskey said, “has had a really great camp. (Saturday), he was flying around making plays.”

Hankins, who was named the defensive scout team player of the year last season, was listed behind Paul “P.J.” Davis on last week’s depth chart at weakside linebacker.

155 comments
zengulliver
zengulliver

Big Crimson, Most of the Alabama fans I know have more class than to sit in the stands and criticize a team that doesn't recruit nor play at their level. That's the stuff reserved for UGA fans. If you want to criticize someone, criticize Auburn, unless they scare you.(like they should) 

unajacket
unajacket

This offense keeps us in every game & is responsible for our meager success;  give us a defense that gives us at least 4 stops a game & a healthy JT & we should win 9 games.

BigCrimson75
BigCrimson75

Bob -- Tough week for Brian Kelly.

You blame him for that fiasco in South Bend?

Could easily be CPJ @ Tech.

This is why the Head Coach needs more power/control than the School Administrators!!

BigCrimson75
BigCrimson75

That's it!!

3 players have improved from last season during Fall Camp!!

...and we're the ones called names for criticizing this incompetent HC?!

SupersizeThatOrder-mutt
SupersizeThatOrder-mutt

@ defender....when the ball carrier sits down on the field when he sees a defender 5 yards away coming straight at him, then yes, I would say he was scared. That's what Vad did at Clemson. I was there and saw it.

GTBob
GTBob

@BigCrimson75 Yep, this could happen to anyone but I do place some blame at the feet of the head coach. He recruited these kids and it was his job to put these kids in the best position to succeed. All he can do now is try to ensure it won't happen again.

SupersizeThatOrder-mutt
SupersizeThatOrder-mutt

@BigCrimson75 

I don't think CPJ has "power/control" at Tech, and yet he graduates players.  And so far, none have been caught cheating like at ND.  I don't think "power/control" is what does it; I think it's a mindset that only the coach and his staff can instill.

GTBob
GTBob

@BigCrimson75 I think it is guys who have made significant improvements just in this camp. One of these guys wasn't even on the team last year.

Birmingham__Jacket
Birmingham__Jacket

@SupersizeThatOrder-mutt

I never saw that.  I did see a lot of missed blocks last season, both on running plays and in "the pocket", if you could call it that.  Vad showed during the UNC and Duke game he was a baller, and had a very good arm if he had time.

SupersizeThatOrder-mutt
SupersizeThatOrder-mutt

I was at the game in Death Valley. I can assure you he did that. And no, he didn't just fall; he quit and sat down. I thought easy on he was a baller too, but he never got over the monster hit he took against UNC, and he was never the same afterwards

PaulinNH
PaulinNH

@BigCrimson75 

ManU needs 2 - 3 new defenders and someone to control MF - at a minimum.  I like Di Maria but 100 GBP (160 US) is insane.  They should have signed Kroos or Reus 3 months ago instead of waiting for "the Genius" to finish up with Holland.  Now every big club in Europe knows van Gaal is desperate and they will demand that they overpay

I love the fact that they are looking for a LB right after signing Shaw - they should have kept Evra as the 2nd guy

GTBob
GTBob

@BigCrimson75 I think you probably will see that. The strength of our defense this year will certainly be in the secondary. I would guess you are going to see a lot of aggressive play from them.

Birmingham__Jacket
Birmingham__Jacket

@BigCrimson75 @Birmingham__Jacket

Vad wasn't Nesbitt.  But the OL had problems last season, too against average and better teams.

I think it's hilarious how these guys think the #2 and #3 QBs from last season are going to set this offense on fire.

Ever heard the phrase "The most popular guy on a football team is the backup QB.'?

BigCrimson75
BigCrimson75

@GeorgeStein @BigCrimson75  George -- Why won't PJ give the rock to Zenon?

What's the problem?

He's a homerun every touch!!

This Perkins kid better be the next Jerry Mays!!

GTBob
GTBob

@Birmingham__Jacket I don't know if they will set it on fire or not but at least they believe in this offense, want to run it, and don't seem to be afraid of contact.

GeorgeStein
GeorgeStein

@BigCrimson75 Well, for one, the nature of an option play is that we don't know who's getting the ball when the ball is snapped.   In terms of designed pitches, I would assume because there have been players ahead of him.

GTBob
GTBob

@BigCrimson75 Zenon is a starter on the latest depth chart. Im sure he is going to get plenty of carries this year.

Birmingham__Jacket
Birmingham__Jacket

@GTBob @Birmingham__Jacket

You need a big "quarterback" to run the TO these days.  

You actually don't even need a QB at all... But whoever is under center needs thighs and shoulders like Dwyer.

I don't think Tech is going to find much success running the TO with "quarterbacks" <225lbs.

GTJoe
GTJoe

@SupersizeThatOrder-mutt  Vad never mastered the offense; somehow, he went 7-6 as a soph when Tevin went 6-7 as a senior, and at least gave us a chance vs. UGA, unlike Tevin.

GTBob
GTBob

@Birmingham__Jacket I'm not sure I have seen any option quarterback that was over 225 lbs. You have to be able to run the option with some kind of speed.

SupersizeThatOrder-mutt
SupersizeThatOrder-mutt

Sure a big bruiser at QB would be nice, but size alone does not make a TO QB. He has to have speed, elusiveness, and intelligence to make it work. I think we will do just fine with either of these men, as long as they get some blocking

GTBob
GTBob

@GTJoe An improved defense might have had a little to do with that.

Birmingham__Jacket
Birmingham__Jacket

@GTBob @Birmingham__Jacket

That's bc nobody has run the TO well since Nebraska in the 90's, and defenses were a lot more "college" back then.

Good college defenses these days are more "pro" than they used to be.  And we all know that the TO is not used at the pro level bc it is ineffective and too 1 dimensional.

It's just silly to even think about a team running that offense in a major BCS conference (although I don't consider the ACC very "major").

GTJoe
GTJoe

@GTBob @GTJoe  ...and a better o-line might have had a little to do with Tevin actually winning 6 games in 2012 (I don't give him credit for the UNC game, btw)...

GTBob
GTBob

@Birmingham__Jacket Defenses are more pro now? What the heck does that even mean? Now you are just talking nonsense.

GTBob
GTBob

@GTJoe So we had a great OL every year until Vad started playing and then it was so bad that Vad couldn't pass or run well. Is that the story you are going with?

GTJoe
GTJoe

@GTBob @BigCrimson75  In hindsight, Vad wasn't perfect for the system:  he wasn't a hard runner, and he was a great passer (of little use in our offense).  We (and CPJ) live and learn.


Tevin wasn't perfect either, he lacked power running and failed at critical junctures.


Nesbitt was the best, because he had size and power.  If he could only execute at 100%...


Based on what we've learned, Byerly should be the guy: power runner WITH size, better arm than Tevin and Nesbitt.  If he could execute at 100%, he'd be the best QB CPJ ever had.

GeorgeStein
GeorgeStein

@GTJoe I actually don't totally disagree with this.   I've suggested a heavy set with Days and Perkins at A-back and speed set with Zenon and Bostic at A-back and Snoddy back at B-back.

GeorgeStein
GeorgeStein

@BigCrimson75 Not a huge one, actually.   It's among the main reasons why I chuckle when people say the offense is antiquated.  

SupersizeThatOrder-mutt
SupersizeThatOrder-mutt

@GTJoe @GTBob @BigCrimson75 

I'm not sure Vad was really a GREAT passer.  He seldom, if ever, saw his secondary receivers and would throw it to his primary receiver even if he was totally covered and a secondary receiver was wide open.  A year under his belt might have improved that aspect of his game, but we will never know.

GTBob
GTBob

@GTJoe Tevin wasn't perfect but he could run the offense pretty well, with confidence. There is a reason Tevin had much better passing and rushing numbers than Vad. Byerly might be that good, if he is he will win the job but currently, the people in charge think JT is better and im excited to see what he can do. Having a homerun threat at QB should be fun.

Birmingham__Jacket
Birmingham__Jacket

@GTBob @Birmingham__Jacket

The offensive players in the NFL are the biggest, strongest and fastest, too.  But they still don't run the TO, because it won't work against even "poor defenses" at that level.


Fact is, it doesn't work at the college level either, when a decent defense is given time to prepare for it.


You have to be able to throw the ball.  Sorry that's inconvenient.  But it's true.

GeorgeStein
GeorgeStein

@SupersizeThatOrder-mutt This is very true.   He had a good arm, but he didn't go through his progressions.   There could be reasons for that - inexperience, blocking, etc. - but it's still true.  

GTJoe
GTJoe

@GTBob @GTJoe  "There is a reason Tevin had much better passing and rushing numbers than Vad"


Better O-line? 

GeorgeStein
GeorgeStein

@GTBob As long as he protects the ball, I think Thomas is going to be pretty awesome this year.

SupersizeThatOrder-mutt
SupersizeThatOrder-mutt

@Birmingham__Jacket 

I don't see how anybody could possibly call Tech's offense 1-dimensional.  There are more dimensions to Johnson's offense than any other offense around.  And as far as the "time to prepare" argument, the only times that MIGHT even be considered valid are the bowl games.  But even then, it's hogwash.  What happens in the bowl games is that with a month off, Tech loses it's offensive rhythm that it maintained on a week-to-week basis during the regular season.  When you look at the Ole Miss game last year, it's easy to say they defended Tech well, but it was more of a lack of execution on the offense than it was a great defense.  The offense (and not even a TO offense, at that), stunk it up.

SupersizeThatOrder-mutt
SupersizeThatOrder-mutt

@Birmingham__Jacket 

Other than Iowa, name me one team with "time to prepare" who actually stopped the triple option.  And don't pick any team from last year, since for all intents and purposes Tech didn't run the TO last year

GTBob
GTBob

@Birmingham__Jacket Its not even nearly a fact that the triple option doesn't work at the college level or that a decent defense will stop it when given time. Do I really need to break out some examples for you?

GeorgeStein
GeorgeStein

@Birmingham__Jacket So is a pass-heavy offense successful?   Or is that too one-dimensional?  


They don't run the option in the NFL because running quarterbacks get killed.   That doesn't happen in the college because it's a different game.  Sorry that's inconvenient, but it's true.

GTBob
GTBob

@GTJoe Vad completed 45% of his passes last year and had a 1 to 1 TD to interception ratio. He threw for less yards overall than Tevin did with more attempts.

AugustaJacket
AugustaJacket

@GTJoe @GTBob "@GTBob@GTJoe  "There is a reason Tevin had much better passing and rushing numbers than Vad"


Better O-line? "

_________________________________


Better decision-making...

GeorgeStein
GeorgeStein

@GTBob I love the "when defenses have time to prepare for it" line of garbage.   It's as though we play games once every six weeks or something.

Birmingham__Jacket
Birmingham__Jacket

@GeorgeStein @Birmingham__Jacket

They don't run the option in the NFL because running quarterbacks get killed. 

-----------------

That is PARTIALLY correct.

The option QB would get "killed" in the NFL...as would the A-Back or B-Back, because the offensive scheme won't work against NFL defenses--- they are too relatively fast at every position.

LSUs, Ole Miss' and Iowa's defenses were too.

GTJoe
GTJoe

@GTBob @GTJoe  O-line issues, Bob?


Facts:

1.  GT averaged 5.6 yards/play in 2013 vs. FBS teams.

2.  GT averaged 5.6 yards/play in 2012 vs. FBS teams (minus the UNC game).

3.  O-line in 2013 was terrible compared to 2012.


And Tevin supposedly ran the offense better?  The stats (and wins) don't bear that out.

GeorgeStein
GeorgeStein

@BigCrimson75 Well, given that we're probably going to run the ball 85% of the time, he won't have to be.

GTBob
GTBob

@BigCrimson75 Actually, from all film I have seen on him he throws a nice ball with a quick release. Im not sure why you think his passing is so bad.

GTBob
GTBob

@Birmingham__Jacket The only bowl team that really shut us down was Iowa. You could make an argument for LSU but turning the ball over 4 times in the first half seems to slow down most offenses. How about the other non bowl games that teams had extra time to prepare for?

GeorgeStein
GeorgeStein

@Birmingham__Jacket They were faster at every position?   Dude, Iowa stopped our offense because Adrian Clayborn was able to take two guys on his own.   Iowa also ranked 8th nationally in total defense.    They didn't just stop Tech; they stopped everyone.

GTBob
GTBob

@GTJoe It was better than Vad's 33% completion percentage in the same game against UGAs backups.

GTBob
GTBob

@GTJoe Tevin in 2012: 684 yards rushing, 20 rush TD, nine 20+ yard rushing plays,  3.86 ypc, 56% completion percentage, 8 TD, 4 INT.

Vad in 2013: 513 yards rushing, 8 rushing TD, one 20+ yard rushing play, 2.82 ypc, 45% completion percentage, 11 TD, 10 INT.

The most striking things are Vad's ypc, and long running plays. His numbers were drastically lower than every other GT QB in the CPJ era. Sorry, I don't put that all on the OL. Vad was just a poor running QB in an offense that needs a good one.

SupersizeThatOrder-mutt
SupersizeThatOrder-mutt

@AugustaJacket @GTJoe @SupersizeThatOrder-mutt @GTBob @BigCrimson75 

Isn't it amazing how some people PICK the stats that support their OPINION rather than building a case around ALL the stats?

GTJoe
GTJoe

@GTBob @GTJoe  yet somehow he led us to our only TD that game. 


Thanks for proving my point bob!

GTJoe
GTJoe

@GTBob @GTJoe  Look.  I can say Vad was better, he won more games in 2013 than TW in 2012.  Then you can blame the defense.


You can say that TW had better numbers, but I can blame the o-line.


But one incontrovertible fact is that they both led the teams to 5.6 yards/play against FBS teams, and Vad did it with an inferior o-line.


Want to see what Vad could have done with the 2012 o-line?  cue up the 2012 UNC game tape.

GeorgeStein
GeorgeStein

@Birmingham__Jacket You're just trying to hide your own personal dislike for the option (which is fine, if odd, BTW) behind performance.   The problem is that it performs very well.   The only reason people gripe is because it's different.   If a pro-set offense performed at the same level, you'd be wetting yourself.

GTBob
GTBob

@Birmingham__Jacket Give me a break. We played a bad game. How about against USC, Utah, UGA (2008), UGA (2010), and UNC (2012). What happened in those games with extra time to prepare?

AugustaJacket
AugustaJacket

@GTJoe @AugustaJacket @SupersizeThatOrder-mutt @GTBob @BigCrimson75 " Vad was never a choker.  TW was.  I have 6 examples.


Do you have any for Vad?"

______________________________________


2013 VT game.  Vad chucked an INT with 1:06 left on the clock at GT driving for the tying score.


Vad also threw an INT with 37 seconds left in a one possession loss in the bowl game vs. Ole Miss.


Neither of these are conjecture...

GTBob
GTBob

@GTJoe He sure did, late in the 4th quarter when UGAs starters were all on the sidelines drinking gatorade and reading the newspaper.

GTBob
GTBob

@GTJoe The difference is you can't really prove that the offensive line was amazing in 2012 and then became terrible in 2013. You are just throwing it out there because you know it can't be proven or disproven. I can prove Tevin and GT had much better offensive numbers in 2012 and that the defense was much better in 2013. You can't prove squat. I also like how you conveniently want to leave out Tevin's other years like they never happened. 

Birmingham__Jacket
Birmingham__Jacket

@GeorgeStein

You guys are fun to chat with.

But you know sooner or later we're going to go back to a traditional offense, with traditional passing QBs like AJ Suggs or Reggie Ball.

GTJoe
GTJoe

@GTBob @GTJoe  more conjecture?  or do you actually have a list of all the players on the field at that point in the game?

GTJoe
GTJoe

@GTBob @GTJoe  If you don't know that the o-line was better in 2012 than 2013, then you don't follow tech football very closely.  Or you are willfully ignoring common knowledge.


Sure, you can prove that Tevin had better offensive numbers, but that proves nothing in comparison to Vad.  Different seasons, different circumstances.  Again, what is incontrovertible is the following:  they BOTH gained 5.6 yards/play vs. FBS teams.  One of them had a better o-line.


If you have no intelligent rebuttal to those facts, then just be silent.  Don't regurgitate your silly stats again, they've already been proven irrelevant.

GeorgeStein
GeorgeStein

@Birmingham__Jacket CAN'T WAIT!


The fact that you cited Reggie Ball as a traditional passing quarterback blows my mind.

SupersizeThatOrder-mutt
SupersizeThatOrder-mutt

@GTJoe @SupersizeThatOrder-mutt @AugustaJacket @GTBob @BigCrimson75 

Look at the tape.  A clear opening which Vad did not take advantage of.  An opening Johnson told him would be there.

AugustaJacket
AugustaJacket

@GTJoe @GTBob If you don't know that the o-line was better in 2012 than 2013, then you don't follow tech football very closely.  Or you are willfully ignoring common knowledge.


Like the common knowledge that every RB except Vad had excellent rushing averages?  OLine wasn't the problem.  Decision making was.


Sure, you can prove that Tevin had better offensive numbers, but that proves nothing in comparison to Vad.  Different seasons, different circumstances.  Again, what is incontrovertible is the following:  they BOTH gained 5.6 yards/play vs. FBS teams.  One of them had a better o-line.


Yet you want to prove that Tevin was worse using stats from disparate seasons.


If you have no intelligent rebuttal to those facts, then just be silent.  Don't regurgitate your silly stats again, they've already been proven irrelevant.


You have just been supplied with intelligent rebuttal.  I am pretty sure you will ignore it, however.

GTBob
GTBob

@GTJoe Oh ok, my stats are silly and irrelevant but your one useless cherry picked stat is proof of Vads greatness and our terrible OL. Your numbers don't even look to be accurate. Looking at the numbers from cfbstats against FBS teams we averaged 5.71 ypp last year. The worst in the CPJ era at GT. Tevin averaged 5.87 ypp in 2012 and 6.46 ypp in 2011. 2011 was actually the highest number of any QB in the CPJ era.

GTJoe
GTJoe

@SupersizeThatOrder-mutt  Johnson told him?  When was that?  Do you have secret microphones?  LOL.


A play in the 2nd quarter cost us the game?  That's as close as you get to a Vad choke Job?


Do I need to bring up VT OT INT?  The 4th down play vs. Miami?  Those are real chokes jobs, on the last plays of the game.  Not the 2nd quarter. 

GTJoe
GTJoe

@GTBob @GTJoe  cherry picked stat?  LOL, yards per play directly tells you how well a QB ran the offense, all else being equal (and we know that TW had the advantage with the o-line). 


Strip out the UNC game in 2012 when Vad went ballistic and the offense averaged 7.3 yards/play, and things will become clearer for you.

SupersizeThatOrder-mutt
SupersizeThatOrder-mutt

@GTJoe @SupersizeThatOrder-mutt 

One thing TW NEVER did was to cower in the face of the opposition.  I was AT Clemson last year, when Vad literally sat down on the field when, while running wide, he spotted a Clemson defender barreling down on him.  THAT was when I lost all faith in Vad.

SupersizeThatOrder-mutt
SupersizeThatOrder-mutt

@GTJoe @SupersizeThatOrder-mutt 

Johnson calls ALL the plays.  Only on the TO, which Vad couldn't run, is there much decision left to the QB.  Johnson called a specific play for Vad to run; he didn't.  Johnson chewed him out on the sideline afterwards for NOT running the play he had called.

GTBob
GTBob

@GTJoe But I bet that you are leaving in all of the plays that Justin Thomas ran last year aren't you? Must be nice to cherry pick which stats, in which years, and which games you want to use for supposed proof huh?

GTJoe
GTJoe

@GTBob @GTJoe  yeah, just like I left in all the plays that vad ran in 2012, outside the UNC game.

GTJoe
GTJoe

@GTBob @GTJoe  I suppose you would credit TW for the UNC game in 2012?  Thought so...

GTBob
GTBob

@GTJoe I gave numbers for Tevin and Vad earlier that wasn't including any games they did or didn't play in. It was just raw numbers. You didn't like those. Here is another stat. Just looking at passing and running plays they were involved in, Tevin averaged 6.14 ypp in 2012 and accounted for 28 TD. Vad averaged 5.73 ypp in 2013 and accounted for 19 TD. These are actual individual stats though so I am sure you will write them off.

GTJoe
GTJoe

@GTBob @GTJoe  Once again, you clearly show that you are unable to follow a simple argument.  Different seasons, different circumstances, different o-lines, hence, such comparisons are silly.


The most relevant stat when judging QB play is: yards/play of the total offense, which is what I gave you.  Both led the offenses to 5.6 yards/play.  Vad had a worse OL and STILL matched TW's offense.  Not to mention, he led us to more wins.  If you don't think that yards/play for the TOTAL OFFENSE is more relevant than yards/play of the individual, especially in our offense, then I can't help you.

GTBob
GTBob

@GTJoe It is, but you are not comparing yards per play. You are comparing yards per play in FBS games, with one of Tevin's games removed, while not removing any snaps that Justin Thomas was involved in last year. It is the most ridiculous cherry picking of stats I have ever seen. 

Here is one more stat for you that I am sure you will write off because it doesn't fit your mythical argument. The Fremeau Efficiency Index (FEI). A statistical measurement of offensive efficiency that only includes FBS teams, removes garbage time yards, and takes strength of schedule into account heavily. In 2013 GT was ranked 38th in the country. In 2012 GT was ranked 26th in the country. In 2011 GT was ranked 16th in the country. Tevin had not one but two better seasons than Vad's one.

GTJoe
GTJoe

@GTBob @GTJoe  well since you asked:


JT in 2013: 6.33 yards/attempt vs FBS

JT in 2013:  5.88 yards/carry vs FBS


VL in 2012:  9.70 yards/attempt vs FBS

VL in 2012:  5.03 yards/carry vs FBS


And Vad have more passes in 2012 than JT had passes and carries combined.


In sum, Vad helped TW's 2012 offense far more than JT helped VL's 2013 offense.


Any other questions?

AugustaJacket
AugustaJacket

@GTJoe @GTBob "VL in 2012:  5.03 yards/carry vs FBS"

______________________________________


VL in 2013:  2.8 Yards/carry vs FBS + FCS


But just so you don't blame the OL


Sims was 5.5, Godhigh was 9.4 Laskey 5.8 JT 7.1 Snoddy 6.3

GTBob
GTBob

@GTJoe Sure, one more question. How do you think Vad would have done if he had to play two more FBS games, including one against one of the best defenses in college football. Do you think that would have hurt his numbers at all?

GTJoe
GTJoe

@AugustaJacket @GTJoe @GTBob  interesting stat.  but it doesn't show who led the offense better.


yards/play for the total offense is more relevant.

GTBob
GTBob

@GTJoe Ah, so the fact that Tevin's stats were dragged down by being forced to play Florida St in the ACC championship game is meaningless huh? Gotcha.

GTJoe
GTJoe

@GTBob @GTJoe  Once again, Vad led the team to a higher yards/play rate than TW during the FSU game (4.84 to 4.10)...you are drowning...